kyle-ward.com

I remember being at a casual gaming place watching some guy play DDR Max 2, then i wanted to be that good, so i got it, but then i found out half the music was kinda…not good, but i still loved the game, later i found out about stepmania and i needed songs, so i downloaded random packs, one of them at random being ITG2, when i had no idea that it was an arcade dance pack. I found more of the music and stepcharts to be fun, and i desperately looked for ITG in arcades. But then i noticed after a while i became more of an ITG Fan rather than DDR. I think the thing that attracted me was the better and bigger selection of good music (not japanese stuff) and the songs seemed to be harder.

But whenever i feel like i need a good pad experience, i find DDR to be better. But ever sense the release of Supernova 2, i’ve found that too many of these things are being rushed, such as when i looked at the charts, hardly any of them were decent…the only one i found to be a good pad song was Freeway shuffle.

Really, what i want in a new (release of a) dancing game, is customability (something beyond bringing in stepcharts on a usb) better charts that arent just some arrows mashed together. Maybe an extra difficulty or something, just so there can be real hard songs with greatly hard streams, but then one for a great pad experience that still is hard, but not mashed together and stuff fun to play also some good music, or more of it, so there’s a bigger selection of it.

it’s kinda hard to explain, but i think that these games should look more attractive also, im not saying that Pump Pro FX cabs or any FX cab doesnt look real nice, but it needs to be easy to look at, because sometimes menu or any kind of navigation like that would be complicated looking.

I’m not sure if i said anything good, but o well…

(this might be off subject but I already started typing) I’m from kansas, and while PowerPlay is a great location, a lot of the dancers there (including me) are worried about the possibility of a dedi-cab coming in, yes we’d love the better graphics, but it would also attract other dedi-cab dancers who hack the machines and use not-so-child-appropriate R21 songs, and some of these guys are really scary; they’d greet me nicely to a game, but if I dominate on a song, they start threatening to hurt my friends and me, just because they feel like a total loser if I’m a “better dancer” than them. And now I won’t look at powerplay the same way again if what I remember most is the possibility of verbal or physical assualt, everytime I go. In fact I’m persuaded to go less now because the relationships between our dance communities are so bad, it’s obvious people are gonna pick sides, and not look back for one moment. I wouldn’t be suprised if the same occurs elseware.

Because I like the ability to create and choose that I get from using Stepmania; without it, there wouldn’t be DDR for me. Because I enjoy the music and the people around me; without them, there wouldn’t be DDR for me. Because I don’t have any other form of intense physical activity; by not being concerned about my health, there wouldn’t be DDR for me. Because I have found a way to meet others; without friends, there wouldn’t be DDR for me.

Because of DDR, I’ve learned to enjoy so many other things and thus, my life has changed in ways it would have not. That is my community.

I have thus posted this with my real name to show, I am who I am whether online or offline, the name is the person of the name.

FYI, I have been playing dancing games since 1999. 4 panel and 5 panel, though 4 panel was more consistent for me. I was also a part of many communities or knew of them, or people in them, etc, and still do, even though I don’t play like I used to anymore.

With that said.
The community back in those days, and up until the last couple of years that I have been involved with, or known of were all about the fun aspect of the game during that time. People still gave a crap about scoring, but it was different, people played the game for fun, to do something different, for exercise. The games weren’t as well known, and so the communities were tightly knit, and didn’t criticize the game as much because it was so new, and so exciting to get a new version, that it didn’t matter the little things that ticked everyone off about them or the new songs. The games soon became more and more popular, more people know about the game now, and they have increasingly become difficult. The focus now is on scoring, and tournaments, and getting angry over stupid things like recalcing scores and pad misses, that the real focus of the game seems to be getting lost. People are so focused on trying to be the best that they become egotistical, and beat up all the new versions that come out because they will never to be their standards. You can’t please everyone, but I’ve noticed that many of the kids in the new generation want tough stuff, and a lot of the older generation frown on that and think that these new versions are taking away the fun we used to have with the game, so many of the older ones are lost or just in hiding. There are exceptions though and I know of some great communities even now, they are just not the majority, or they aren’t as active in the general communities. But now with Pro bringing together two communities that never really got along in the first place, it’s a whole new can of worms.

I really hope this makes sense. I’m sure this could get torn up, but I’m 23 and couldn’t care less what some squirts think about me and a dancing game (I do have a life outside these things and I normally don’t speak up about these subjects anymore, but for you kw, i’ll make an exception!). This is my opinion based on years of observation. That is all.

I’m not active in anything at the moment (mostly due to monetary constraints) but I would consider myself a member of the Roxor/ITG community. Like a lot of other people, there were few songs on DDR Extreme that I couldn’t pass by the time In The Groove came along, and the primary appeal was in the difficulty of the stepcharts. I also ended up a big fan of the the general music style ITG employed.

I’ve played and enjoyed DDR SuperNOVA, but there aren’t enough hard songs to sustain my interest. Plus, I’m still pretty pissed off at Konami for In The Groove’s death.

I believe the Machine Dance Community as a whole are still recovering from the Konami vs Roxor lawsuit, I must admit almost all of the ITG Community were quite upset that it ended the way it did. Some people even left the community or become extremely elitist and such. Even today there are those who will not let go of this anger. IMO I believe this anger is the reason the ITG community is in this state. This anger is also the reason many ITG Players has yet to play or have the will to accept PIU Pro. They still want ITG3 or something that follows it. However I shouldn’t worry Kyle. This anger will sooner or later pass and the communities will be in better shape. People should let go of that lawsuit and look at the new things like Pro and other future dance games.

In short of all of this, the state of the communities seems grim but it will improve in time.

Here here, Westmiller. Totally agree with you 110%. Pretty much why I left the ITG Freak forums. Just cannot stand the immaturaty on the forums with people starting flames and such.

kyle– lets just face it. the dance community is gone… nobody is nice/fun like they used to be, now they’re hostile, pissy, greedy, bitchy, and honestly, this is the same direction that America as a country is going… so, Kyle, do us all a favor and make your games a hit internationally! Cause America is going down the tubes.

To Kyle, and to the machine dance community as a whole-

I started playing DDR about a year and a half ago, just for fun. About a year ago, my parents opened an indoor mini golf course with a DDR machine, so I got the ability to play free games whenever. I must say that if it wasn’t for the community, I honestly would have quit playing awhile ago. I now run tournaments at the golf course, where the community all comes together to have a good time. My first real experience in the DDR community was when one of the participants at one of the DDR tournaments invited out to dinner afterwards with all the rest of the community. Since then, I feel I really have contributed to the community by doing as much as I can to bring it together. On that note, even though I wasn’t into machine dance back in the (apparently) good ol’ days, I have a strong feeling that the community is not nearly as close as it probably was before. Thanks to this game, I have met some awesome people that I otherwise would have never crossed paths with, and for that I owe a great deal to this game. As for now, I will just try to improve the community in my region to my full potential, mostly by running tournaments that bring everyone together. On a final note, although the community doesn’t seem too close right now, I will do everything in my power to improve it, and I’m sure that it will.

I first played DDR in an elementary school gym class, back during Disney Mix (now that’s old) and I didn’t play it again until 2 years later. I was really bad at it but then eventually I got really good over the course of 2 weeks. I got the console version of ITG in 2005 and liked it because of the additional challenges it presented for those looking to take it a step up, and I really just saw it as another DDR. I first played PIU at an arcade at the Rio casino in Las Vegas and got the console version of Exceed a few months later. I love all three games equally (although unfortunately I rarely get to play Pump, I lost my mat and there’s no machines around where I live anymore). I agree with what everyone here has said-we are a community, not a stupid debate. And, like I said, I like all three games equally. What other people need to do is realize that we are not supremacists, we’re equals-and let’s just get over a silly lawsuit, shut up and just dance.

I think that the community has died down quite a bit because of the number of people that are playing. It seems like the numbers have decreased quite a bit.

Also, It seems like the people who do play always bring their own friends when they go to the arcade, and they don’t really want to talk to random people very much. It also seems like the people who show up play one game and then leave, so you don’t really get a chance to know them.

Also, It seems like there are more annoying outsiders who like to step on your pad while you are playing and poke fun. It just gets tiring when trying to form communities at the arcade.

I don’t think it’s really the games themselves as it is the people who play them. I think that releasing new titles that add new innovations will keep the players who started out earlier more interested and less apt to drop out.

I have noticed that ever since ITG was taken by Konami, much of the community has become worse. I always enjoyed playing ITG for the fun, not for trying to get death-defying scores like 99.75% on Pandemonium expert and stuff like that. http://www.itgfreak.com is now basically a s***hole with flamings and negativity. A group of guys are trying to make completed community “unofficial” stepcharts for ITG3 songs and at the same time, ignoring some people’s submissions for stepcharts. Example: A set of arcade-perfect-quality doubles steps for VerTex³ were uploaded like 4-6 weeks ago, yet it was never updated on the community project thread like it does not even exist. These steps are freaking awesome! I wish that this nonsense could end and that ITG staff members like K. Ward, C. Foy, and M. Emirzian can get together and complete the unfinished stepcharts, overriding everything being done by http://www.itgfreak.com.

I have seen the community around me change a decent amount since I started playing at the end of 2000, around the NJ, NY, PA area it may not be as big as it used to be but it is still friendly. Sure a decent amount of people are competitive but in all the tournaments even the people who won them were all friendly and just having a good time instead of being stuck up.

The only thing negative that I have seen in the community around me was the dislike of Pump back in the DDR days. A decent number of people didn’t like the game and refused to play it while I thought it was fun and a nice distraction from playing four panel all the time.

From starting on DDR Solo Bass Mix, I have found in the Dance game community a lot of friends, some who I know will become lifetime friends that goes beyond video games. I also know that the dance game community is a very competitive and athletic group. Ever since it was possible to get a AAA, the competitive aspect has been there. However, since DDR was relatively easy and fun, there was a good balance of competitive people and people who played for fun and freestyle. With the advent of ITG and the controversy over “pad misses” and the ilk, the songs grew harder, and scores were critiqued and defended as “adjusted” or legit, and timing/synching issues that should have never entered the game, then the Revisions came in, validating the competitive scene even more. Now the community is dominated by the second generation of these competitive players, who live in a world of hacked games, 1000+ step charts, and there really is no room for the happy-go-lucky dancing and freestyle because of the push to get “one less excellent”. I think that is where a lot of the negativity is coming from, is the egos of some of the players thinking that because they put in such effort to get good scores and “accepted” by the community, they have a “right” to offer what they think is constructive criticism, but lack of online etiquitte makes it come off as rude and flaming and trolling.

I play these games for fun and exercise, as I have for the last 6+ (!) years. I’m a statistics whore and I love playing for score, but I compete more against myself than anyone else, and that’s why I love the USB score tracking in the “team Kyle” games I’ve also come to terms with the fact that I’m 28 and getting older, and that I’ll never be able to pass some of the stuff in these games…but I’m OK with that. Enough about me though…

When I first started playing these games, getting a AA on a 10-footer was virtually unheard of, DDRMAX2 was brand-new and the first home version had just hit the US (that’s what I started with). The arcades I visited on a regular basis seemed loaded with people trying to pass the new Heavy songs, get just a little further on the 10s, or even just work their way up to Heavy. Everyone was friendly, there was a minimum of drama, and new players were welcomed in droves.

DDR Extreme came out and everyone was all over it. I remember going to Game World in the Danbury Fair Mall the day they got it. One of the regulars was keeping a list of people waiting to play…I was there for something like 3 or 3.5 hours and only got to play 2 sets (the second one being right before the place closed). Of course, like everyone else, I felt it was worth it, heh. Our community thrived and going every other weekend was amazing.

But then the content well dried up. Once IR and the unlocks were done, and, oh, say, a year had passed, there was nothing new to play, and Extreme was starting to show its age despite the large amount of material within. So what was left to do? Get better scores, and better, and better… would anyone have ever AAAed all of Extreme if there were new songs to play? The community became segregated into the attackers and the bored (who then left). Konami had just been churning out one uninspired home version after another, and they continued to do so until ITG started making an impact.

I feel like the time ITG2 came along as–no pun intended–the “second coming.” Since it got much wider distribution than ITG1, it was actually out there and reachable by most interested players. As far as I could tell, people started getting excited about new stepcharts again, and not just for scoring. When a brand-new ITG2 dedicab (perhaps the last one manufactured) arrived in my local arcade in late 2006, right around the time ITG3 was due out, interest exploded…finally, something new to play! Noteworthy: the same mall got DDR SuperNOVA when it was fairly new, but the serious players realized within a few months that it did nothing at all to advance the series, and went back to ITG2. Custom Songs support keeps the game alive…because of NEW CONTENT. I’m sure we’ll tire of ITG2 eventually, but Custom Songs is a great feature that has kept the game interesting for a lot longer. Nobody there mentions SuperNOVA 2…

My belief: without regular content updates, the community will become segregated, split, tense or just will begin to fade away. There’s nothing that can be done at this point about ITG, and DDR hasn’t really advanced at all since Extreme, but Pump is alive and kicking, and Pro is fantastic. I know that it’s difficult to convince some people to invest in a new machine, but every time a new Pump Pro is installed, it’s another chance to keep the community interested and alive. I was one of the people that convinced my local place to get ITG2, and I’m going to lead the charge for Pump Pro there as well…

This is running long, but … another anecdote about how the community can change: I’ve run the Expert division of the biggest DDR tournament in New York for two years straight. Yes, DDR, a game that has had little to no update in years, save for a few new songs.

The first year, the rules placed a heavy emphasis on mods…something you don’t see with DDR too much. The resulting competition was very difficult, and very few AAs happened, but everyone seemed to have a good time, despite some minor technical difficulties (pad-related).

The second year, we decided not to use mods, and went with straight PA, which has been around forever. This was a HUGE mistake. Lots of people brought their egos with them, and when we encountered technical difficulties yet again, tempers flared. We had to basically count pad errors as people were playing, which was extraordinarily difficult, while simultaneously dealing with annoyed teenagers who can AAA most of the game complaining about how they lost because of pad errors. Many of our entrants were very understanding and knew we were doing the best we could, but some others were insatiable, and the main tournament organizer isn’t sure he wants to have anything to do with it ever again.

So in short…content is king, including in step games. Dry up the content well and you’ll see negative effects. Innovation and new material win every time.

Thanks Kyle, for helping to provide new material and keep the community stepping.

I started playing because I saw the korean mix of ddr in vegas, tried it out and thought it was pretty cool. I got into it a bit more when I started meeting folks. It started out for fun/excersise and then at some point ppl started making it about whose “good” and got a little bit too concerned about scores which pretty much made me quit for a while until I started piu. (pretty much to avoid the drama and it was something new and different) I was actually kinda worried when I heard about pump pro just ’cause I was told it was like itg but for pump and well since there was so much inphasis on scores back then I just wanted to stay away from the game all together. I just wish that people would encourage others to get better in a positive way and not make others feel bad because they aren’t “good” because that just takes the fun out of the whole experience.

Thanks to everyone for posting your personal messages & stories so far. This information is incredibly useful and it is my hope to help apply it to new projects for the year!

Please continue to keep your comments coming.

Kyle, the short and sweet answer is that ITG made the dance gaming community more competitive as a whole, period. Instead of trying to analyze what happened to our communities, compare them to another type of community that has gone downhill: First Person Shooters.

About 15 years ago, there were no good FPS games until the ID classic Doom was released. While it was a horror-like gore fest, practically everyone who played the game loved it and it received so much praise. A simplistic game involving escaping complex labyrinths without dying. Over the 15 years since the game as been released, more features have been added to FPSs like Jumping, vehicles, and IMO, what made the community go downhill, Online stats. When people are naturally good at something, it’s easy for them to boast and become cocky. Of course, this will just cause more tension and push other players to be good, just for the sole purpose of being the best at a video game. Games on XBox live are an embarassment due to all the little kids and people thinking no one can beat them and then blaming their losses on their hardware. However, there is a community that is nothing like this. Ironically, this community is a community of players who play Doom online with each other. There is no need to play very competetively, everyone has fun, and all games end with players saying “GG”. The ideal community for any fun loving gamer.

Now compare this to dancing games. I was always aware of DDR and semi-closely followed it, but didn’t start until MAX2. Before Extreme was released, it was hard to find a very competitive group of DDR players. Good players, yes, but few competitive players. Extreme changed everything. When Konami decided to stop making arcade cabs to let us americans catch up with the vast japanese songlist on console versions, everything became different. I believe around this time is when ITG was initialy released and ITG2 soon after. Since ITG had so many user friendly features like USB compatibility and a percentage based scoring, it became easy for players to compare scores and say, “Hey, I’m just slightly better than you”, especially with the extra Fantastic window. However, I believe the biggest factor of competition came from Roxor’s last ditch attempt to keep ITG alive forever: R21. Before R21, players only had 3 13s to prove their extreme skill on, but R21 resulted in the most competitive spark in dancing game history.

After having discussed R21′s “Ogg patch flaw” with several of my friends, I’m fairly convinced that Roxor intended for players to find the glitch and play long songs. But the real question to ask is what exactly did this do for competitiveness? Songs and files once deemed for keyboard only soon became a thing of the past. Impossibly hard songs like Air and Emerald Sword were passed on pads to the astonishment of the whole dancing game world. Eventually, 13 was not a high enough difficulty to contain all the speed and skill required for a song and when Evildave became the first person in the world to pass One More Lovely, every dancing game became more competitive.

While now most of the top ITG players in the world can pass constant streams at 180 BPM, other communities pushed the limit too. DDR Supernova’s release brought forth 6 new songs, all with 10 charts of insane difficulty. While many of these charts were complained about, it doesn’t ignore the fact that DDR became more competitive as well. Konami as of recently has been trying to pull back players attracted to harder games by releasing crazy songs of their own. Pump, while always a difficult game, became even more unbelievable, especially with Nightmare charts like Chimera and Love is a Danger Zone 2 which require some of the fastest feet imaginable. ITG began as a highly evolved game with unique game play, but all of the dancing games have always been slowly evolving.

Regarding ITG, it takes alot to be considered “Good”. Since almost every 9, 10, and 11 has been quad stared, being able to get a 97% on a song like Disconnected Hyper isn’t anywhere near as impressive as it was 2 years ago. Because of this, the best players naturally get more respect and agreed with. There are alot of mixed feelings about ITG Freak and DDR Freak. One is referred to as a bunch of a-holes and the other is regarded as a bunch of morons. I’ve found most ITG players to be brutally honest. If you do as well as many other players on a song, you get congratulated while if you brag about a lowly achievement, they will demean you. In the end, you’re still left staring at the best players and their achievements, wondering why you aren’t that good. It hurts to some, but take a look at the other side.

Let’s say I’ve been playing ITG since the game has started. You play every single day of your life and it shows. You’re one of the top people in the world, making you a celebrity of sorts. But whenever you make an achievement, there’s always someone else who thinks they’re just as great as you, posting scores anyone can achieve, stuff you did when you first played. After more than 3 years, wouldn’t you eventually get tired of this? It’s obviously not approprate, but it is inevitible for some people. Getting called a fake, people who are mediocore saying they’re better, and all kinds of factors can turn a fun loving player into a competitive player.

It’s hard to pinpoint exactly where everything went wrong, but one thing is clear: dancing games aren’t going to return to their old nature.

I’m glad to see people posting about the topic. Sorry to see people disgusted over it

I do remind everyone that I find it highly important to value everyones perspective on topics. Do not hold grudges towards anyone or any community for their beliefs or topics.

My thanks goes out to everyone who has contributed to this topic so far. It shows a lot of character and that many people still care about the future!

I lol’d at all of this post

also pro is terrible

I’m glad that this thread could offer some entertainment value for you Ridge. Thanks for the useful feedback…

~K

Im glad you sign your posts kyle, otherwise i might not know who was posting.

Also pro really really sucks. please stay away from dancing games

~K

sheesh, why do you feel the need to be so negative? Does it make you feel better to come here and attempt to derail a topic for other members?

(Ironically, this is exactly the type of stuff I was referring to in this post – I guess it’s a good example)

I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy PIU Pro. Do you have any constructive feedback on things you’d like to see? What didn’t you like?
It is expected that we can’t make every player type happy. (sadly)

Luckily you still have other games + options to enjoy. No worries.

Regardless of your negatively, there are people who are enjoying PIU Pro. It has been successful in attracting a new audience. while increasing earnings for operators. The Pro player base is expanding moderately throughout different regions. Our team really couldn’t ask for anything better with a first release in the series. We are looking forward to the future!

If you decide to come back and repost, please don’t bother with further negative intentions….

Things that suck about pro:

1) Most of the new charts,most of them feel like grab the bar look at the screen and run really fast lol kawaii anime desu <(^_^)V

2)Timing window: I’ve always liked how pump almost doesn’t focus on timing. Now this new timing window is very no for me

3)Mines: lol step and dey go kaboosh i hate dese thingys nd i hate these more in pro

4)Rolls: lol step real fast kk

5)ITG style everything woops got sued from konami better go ruin pump it up now

Good things about pro that I like:

1) Theme: This is nice.

and thats’s it, how long have you guys been playing pump anyways? I think Pump it Up Paradise does better with their free pump games because well, they do stuff pump style rather than lol itg im a bubble dancer.

~R

Also thank you Andamiro for not making PUMP ITG NO WAIT PRO as part of the existing series and just existing.

I know this section is on machine dance communities, but I would like to share my feedback.

1) Ridge, leave feedback that will help the developers make it better. You’re little antics really aren’t helping. “its cute anime”? I think someone needs to work on their Japanese a bit more. Thats completely unrelated to what you were saying beforehand.

2) Kyle, I, personally, enjoy Pump PRO and I think its a step ahead in the machine dance genre. The only complaint I have is the song selection menu seems cramped and hard to find what you are looking for. Besides that, PRO is fantastic and I will continue to make trips to my local arcade to play it more. I’ll shut up for now and just post further on the offical Pump Pro forums.

Thank you.

@B!LL: I was obviously joking

Here is what you should do for pump pro

1. Fire your entire staff (including foy)
2. Find people who know how to write charts. Valius makes great pump charts, Jason dread does not
3. Look at the charts you have made, and think to yourself “is this garbage really what pump is all about”

by garbage i mean every single original pro chart that isnt “Dance all night”

Look at VVV. thats a fucking joke
Look at Infection NM. Thats a fucking joke.
Look at Funky tonight CZ (even though a chart already exists in pump for CZ). Its a fucking joke.

Didnt you find it odd that when AM put those 5 songs from Pro on NX2, they changed the charts?

Pump it up charts have though put into them. Which is why this game cannot be considered part of the “Pump it Up” series

Kyle -

Is there a reason you need to be so negative towards a certain step author? Regardless, I do understand your message.

Thankfully the PIU Pro charts are produced by a “team” of developers with different styles + feelings. Don’t like a certain chart style? No problem, there are several others that are very different in feel. Some have turns and twists, some have you facing forward, some aren’t complex in rhythm while others are…

Is there a particular style you’d like to see more of?

Your comment about the changed steps in NX2 is completely unjustified. I was involved in the production between titles & I know the very reason for all of these changes. It’s NOT related to the stepcharts authoring at all. To add to this, all songs were licensed formally for NX2 from PRO and regular royalty rates applied. We coordinate with Andamiro Korea on projects, so please keep that in mind before you make accusations about an internal topic.

To summarize, I’m not sure why you bring up these points against Pro. Things were done for a reason and we are very aware of why they were done this way. Rather then being negative towards something, you might as well offer your input. (if you think it has value to better the game)

Pump It Up Pro is a new budding product that is creating a new player community. The sales and interest level continues to climb in the US and over seas. (even after the 6 months when it was first available) If you want to help benefit the future, you can offer your intelligent input and we will always listen. If you aren’t interested in this, then please move along and focus your efforts towards something else you do enjoy in Sacramento.

First off, i dont live in sacramento… nor anywhere near it (if you are checking my ip adress shame on you, thats why i have it rerouted ).

secondly i gave you my input and suggestions. it was to fire the whole staff and stay away from dancing games.

fair enough… Thanks for the feedback.

It seems the topic got a little derailed, but I’d like to offer my little input. I live in south-eastern michigan and I’ve been playing dance games for a little over three years now. I was originally introduce to the game while watching some people on campus playing DDR Extreme. Back in those days it was truly a friendly community and I got welcomed in as a new player with open arms. I got into the community shortly after SeMIgroove broke up and met alot of really cool people. Honestly, most of my friends today, if not all of them, play or have played dancing games, but even in just my group of friends it really shows what happened to the community.

Before I start going off on a tangent I guess I should just get to my point. I feel that the communities (web-based and arcade-based alike) really went downhill because people were unable to secure a good balance between fun and competition. Half of the people started becoming elitists and only cared about their score and tournaments; this often leads to high-score competitions, anger and flame wars. The other half of the people felt the game wasn’t fun anymore or couldn’t have fun due to others’ pursuits of perfection. The game’s focus geared towards the competitive people and so the fun-going people quit.

What has really impressed me is one of my friends over here in MI who has been playing for much longer than I have and has been able to keep his interest in the dancing games. Honestly, he was the first person I ever saw playing (ironically enough playing PSMO) and after basically my entire group quitting, he still plays today. He competes in alot of the major tournaments and does quite well, yet he still enjoys the games immensely. It’s due to him I got back into dancing games after quitting for a year (I stopped playing when I hit a plateu in ITG2, and now I’m playing PIU Pro and enjoying myself).

Enough of me ranting on, in short I guess the point I’m trying to make is that a player has to find their own balance in competing in the games while still having their fun. If they stop having fun, then they can become PA-slaves (or FA slaves now to be more correct) and/or eventually become elitists. However I still feel that a bit of the competitive edge is still required when playing, or else you’ll get bored (like I did) and just quit playing. Competition can make the game interesting, but please, just keep having fun while you’re playing.

Sorry for writing so much, I’m at work and feel like playing pump now.

The death of ITG2 was the death of dance game communities in America. It was already starting to get old, and ITG2 added that final kick that DDR failed to provide. R21 did a lot of bad things by letting people have power over the game, and the commercialization of DDR caused a huge uproar amongst long time fans. Combine all that with the fact that people grow up and have to move on with their lives, and you have a dying community. The new wave of kids just don’t hold video games as high as we do, so the idea of them keeping it alive is out of the question. The exact same thing happened to fighting games, too. People still play them, and will continue to do so for a very long time, but the popularity will never be as big as it was in the 90′s when the genre was at its peak. I personally only play dancing games for nostalgia these days. Competition means nothing to me anymore.

ITG2 might have been silenced, but the people that play have all but evaporated with it. More and more people play each day. I play on a custom machine in the midwest in kansas with community ITG3. The machine takes in over 2200 dollars monthly off tokens. Quite frankly, i think its safe to say that ITG is still growing off what little it has left. Tournaments still happen and people are still intrested. Dont give up hope for ITG! You never know what konami will do. Like KaW said, “If there is enough demand for something, anything is possible”. So support your local machines and get INVOLVED with communitys out there that have the same goal; The Rebirth of In the Groove.